21 June 2004 16:51

The moan it moaneth every day

If one of my Saintly friends happened upon your website and had no former knowledge of your incoming they might think that you were an umpteenth generation local. Poor chap, family been there since the first Crusade and can't get away because of family ties. But it's not like that is it? Now, I can moan, groan and complain about where I live because I have to live here (well Mrs Winwaloe says we have to) but you are there of your own free choice. BUT all you ever do is moan about the place!! - So, why the ********* do you live there?  You have now been joined by a Loic who also seems keen to moan, groan and gnash against unique, world famous, man made projects sited in Cornwall. I am sure there are people in Hertfordshire who regret the passing of the paper trade, there are miners in Wales who regret the passing of coal mines, workers in the North who regret the passing of the mills and people in Scotland who regret that the haggis  no longer nests on the moors. But, time moves on. I still cannot determine what you would like for St Ives and Cornwall. Return to tin mining (great as long as you don't have to do it), ditto copper. Fishing, well the fish could still be there but you will need to reinstate the Fowey Gallants to keep the foreigners away. You could, of course, make St Ives so up market that only Sunseekers are moored in the harbour and Bentleys parked outside the holiday homes but you would need year round good weather. Now, if you can just find a disused mine shaft or twenty, cave it in and build a perspex dome over the top, install air conditioning you could be well away. Just remember who gave you the idea!!
Benatugana - Tereba nessa - Winwaloe  

Vile Jelly

21 June 2004 22:13

You know, the US authorities used to ask exactly the same sort of questions to the 19th century sociologists, ethnologists, anthropologists and do-gooders who made complaining noises about what was being done to the Native Americans. You must be delighted to be in such worthy company General Custer!

Anyway, all you ever do is moan whenever anyone says anything that
contradicts your rose-tinted visitor's view of the place. It must be a great delight for you to see the vulgar ostentation of your fellow home counties jet-setters and an awful drag to have those indigenous poor people cluttering up the bits of Cornwall you want to use. I did give you my version of what I wanted for Cornwall (Remember it? Big long e-mail using the example of the Isle of Man as a demonstartion of how a small, homogenous community can carve a niche out in the big wide world.). You, so far, have yet to contribute anything meaningful to the debate. All you do is witter on about your delusional saintliness like an appallingly bad 'street' performer desperately trying to find a gullible audience.

You have not taken up the cudgels of rational debate. You have not made your own website. You have not produced any sensible writing on the subject. In short, all you've done is waffle about yourself.

And complain.

Look to your own sheen, kettle, this pot ain't for burning!


22 June 2004 09:07

Whilst attack can be the best form of defence in your case it is not. You continue to bang on about all that is wrong with the place you choose to live in. My point is, if it is such a bad place why are you living there? You remind me of the types who stand on street corners selling the "Socialist Worker" (a contradiction of terms if ever there was one)always prepared to bang on about how hard done by they are and how badly the rest of the World treats them but having not an ounce of original thought.  Why on earth should I want to create a website? I don't need one. You accuse me of viewing St Ives/Cornwall through a tinge of rose. Surely that applies equally to you? Your banging on gives the impression that you would like to see St Ives populated only by true Cornish (that leaves you out)and no visitors allowed. Will you borrow my Saintly staff, strike the ground thrice and bring forth fish, tin and copper, or will you just reside over the town until it dies? Serious debate? If I want serious debate I go elsewhere or dig deeper into my philosophy books/papers. Re the IoM. An excellent offshore financial centre for the rich and ultra rich, it has preserved some traditional industry and works hard to bring in more tourists. The motorcycle race helps but what about all those scruffy, loud bikers? They would be such a blot on Cornwall wouldn't they (under your reckoning). Your website gives enjoyment, I just object to your gratuitously short-sighted, unreasonable and downright goofy banging on about how bad the tourists are. Of course they/we are not perfect but that is not peculiar to those that visit St Ives. As for being a "street performer" at least I don't have to stand on a soapbox to be heard!

Vile Jelly

22 June 2004 09:36

Me? Bang on about things? Tsk, tsk. Such a blinkered view (inevitable I suppose from such a great distance).

Am I the Bishop of Truro?
Am I Loic Rich?
Am I Waldemar Janusczak?
Am I the TUC?
Am I the MP for St. Ives?

I just report what's in the news and the e-mails. It's not my fault that these people have expressed similar views to mine. Who's supporting your views. Oh, let me guess, all your like-minded London jet-set friends. Now, they wouldn't have a vested interest in doing the indigenous population down, would they? I'm sure they'd be delighted if locals could compete with them in the housing market. I'm sure they'd think it only fair if money was invested in creating high skill/high pay jobs that would give them some competition, instead of dead-end jobs that keep the natives properly subservient.

Thanks for your views on the IoM. Presumably your knowledge of the place is as in-depth as your knowledge of West Cornwall. Which is frightening when you consider how completely erroneous they are! Spent much time there?

PS. Sorry, for some reason even the almighty Google has failed to locate
you. Where, apart from the soapbox of SSI, can your views be heard?


22 June 2004 14:57

Possibly/Probably to the first five - or at least some dubious reincarnation of spirit

IoM - Friends, clients and sporting associates live and work there. So freely admit views formed on what I see through business and enthusiasm of friends

Standing back from the problem/issue can give a more objective viewpoint. The worm in the mustard doesn't know the apple exists.

Depth of knowledge is an issue. What may seem little knowledge (as opposed to opinion/hype/banging on)to one may seem vast to another. I have a friend who is considered an "expert" on the Middle East. He lives in London. The point is clear I think.

I may not disagree with what you say. My point is why do you live in a place that makes you so unhappy, angry, frustrated? Do you suffer from masochistic tendencies or is it the need of the ardent Socialist to tackle authority from the sidelines?

As I have said before, if I could live in West Penwith I would consider myself very, very fortunate indeed although I do think I would have to do something about the tourists.

Vile Jelly

22 June 2004 15:54

That would make me a Cornish Female Polish Socialist Liberal Democrat. It's a tempting thought but, frankly, I've got enough on my plate at the mo to attempt anything so strenuous as transnationalpoliticalgenderbending. Might give it a go in the next life if the chance pops up, though.

Following on from your 'definition' of the IoM does that mean that your friends are rich and ultra-rich? Lucky you, to move in such circles but spare a thought (and a caviar and bollinger sarnie) for the less fortunate. We don't all have incomes that are defined as M-something in the Budget analysis.

Did your mate get to be an expert on the Middle East by visiting it for a
couple of weekends every year? While allowing that one may study from a distance if one has adequate sources of information but I thought your speciality was R S Hawker and other past luminaries. While certainly a stirring paean to Cornish solidarity in the face of quasi-catholic absolutism I can't recall Trelawny containing much by way of socio-economic analyses of the demographic stresses in 21st century Cornwall. When you are living in the trenches, as it were, you report on what you see and hear. Your accusation of moaning would be completely valid if I was (a) making up the stories or (b) the only person who thought that way.

But the Bish of Truro did 'moan' about Objective One money being used too much for prestige tourist attractions, Loic does live here and is studying the issue, Waldemar whatshisface did pan St. Ives for being full of tourist tat, the TUC has just published a report on the exploitation of the Cornish workforce and Andrew George was the guiding light behind the reduction of the 2nd homers council tax discounts. These issues would still be there even if they weren't reported in SSI. So, accusing me of a one-jelly plot to deliberately blacken the place by 'moaning' seems more than a tad unfair. These are genuine concerns down here and if you did spend some time mingling with us hoi-polloi, seeing what's getting reported in the media you'd realise that I'm not just stirring things for my own personal gratification.

In a nutshell, I think that continued unquestioning exploitation of the area in the name of tourism will ultimately destroy the very qualities that make St. Ives attractive in the first place. So, I keep questioning. Not a lot of other websites do, they just try to flog you the usual holiday guff. Be honest, if it wasn't for SSI how much would you know about the wages/housing/re-development/tourism issues down here? Buy some subscriptions to the West Briton, Cornishman and SI Times & Echo and see what the topical issues down here are in the serious press. You might be surprised to find that I am not quite the lone voice of dissent you think I am!


22 June 2004 16:59

Distance learning is a great thing. When work commitments allow I intend to apply to do my Master's in Cornish Studies via Exeter Uni. (I think Dr P does not live in Cornwall but I may be wrong). Technology is a wonderful thing, it allows me to read a range of newspapers not readily available in the Metropolis (funny but should I choose to I can buy Irish, Welsh, Scottish, French, German, Gulf, Hong Kong newspapers in London but I can't buy the Cornishman, Western Morning News, Cornish Guardian etc. Is this a nasty capitalist plot not to allow Cornish newspapers over the Tamar - on the other hand perhaps no one has bothered to try to send them over)So I do read Cornish newspapers, I also read the emails and publications I receive form the various Cornish and (I admit)Devon associations, societies etc I am a member of. Also, not knowing you personally one gains a rather one-sided view. On the ground you may be making all sorts of positive noises and putting forward innovative ideas to help St Ives, West Penwith and Cornwall in general. If you are then all power to you and why not start sharing some of those ideas on the site. I do accept that I may take your site in a manner it is not meant to be taken. Soup dragons, something about potatoes and the other "in jokes" don't really promote a serious disposition. Perhaps I should write about turnips -

Vile Jelly

23 June 2004 09:13

So's practical experience. You can study the problem all you want but, at the end of the day, no theory is valid without some empirical testing to back it up. Anyone can come up with an 'expert' solution to a problem (usually in a pub) if they don't actually have to put that solution into practice and/or live with the consequences. This is why, in the immortal words of Big Country, 'all the folks who can run the world drive cabs or cut your hair'. Just look at WW1. All the 'experts' stayed at HQ and came up with a series of brilliant strategies, none of which really worked (Schlieffen Plan, Gallipoli), as a result of which the folks having to live with the problem quite uppity. The Russians had a revolution, the French mutinied, the Germans collapsed and British society became actively politicised. Now, I've yet to see anything (sensible) written on the subject that claims that this is what the generals and the politicians were trying to achieve, which rather implies that they hadn't really thought the problem through.

As A Pope once observed, a little learning is a dangerous thing. A long-distance, dispassionate view is all well and good but only in context. I always think the 'independence and aloofness' of the judiciary is a two-edged sword. Yes, it means that judgments should be dispassionate and unbiased because the judge has no involvement in the issue but, especially when you see some of the sentences dished out, I wonder if sometimes the judges are too divorced from the outside world to be able to make judgments that reflect the morals and needs of the society that created the laws in the first place.

Don't know why you can't get Cornese papers in the Big Stench (calls itself a metropolis, eh?). If I remember, I'll have a rummage through the weeklies tomorrow and see what, if any, they supply by way of subscription services. I'd be surprised if they didn't (they're not THAT Cornish!) and you used to be able to get the IoM papers by subscription post in the UK. Failing that, just post me a couple of spare gold ingots from your daily lunch allowance and I'll get the Reporting Team to read them over the phone to you.

I tried on numerous occasions (espesh while slumming it) to get a job in one of the O1, SureStart, Regeneration, etc. projects down here (would have loved to be Paths Officer for West Penwith!). Never got a look-in. Never got anywhere with the councils either. But then, as you oft point out, I'm not Cornish. (Ooh, controversy there. Jelly not so blinkered as some might say!). Being forced to find work (and I can't afford not to) in what passes for the private sector down here means working long hours for crap money at anti-social times. You'll have no doubt noticed that most voluntary organisations and societies tend to arrange their activities around evenings and weekends .....

Finally, (cos I'm buggering off to work), I reject (politely but firmly) the view that you aren't entitled to have a 'moan' about things if you're not somehow actively involved in righting the wrongs of the world. By that logic, if I was a passenger on the Titanic I would be disqualified from moaning that the ship is heading straight for an iceberg on the grounds that I'm not doing anything to steer the ship!


24 June 2004 09:18

Not surprisd on the regen projects the world and his wife must have been applying! - If I ever get down to West Penwith as the Saintly Incomer you may well find we are fighting shoulder to shoulder. The funny part will be that we are incomers. I sometimes think that the average Tre, Pol and Pen is fairly happy to be left to their own devices and let the World get on with it. Re Titanic - desperate passenger with real go would have run to bridge and gone "Left hand down a little" - He who dares etc etc - Work hard - at least you are getting paid for it!

Vile Jelly

24 June 2004 15:21

Actually I shouted 'Look! Warn Engine Room!' but Cap'n Smith misheard. He thought one of the passengers was moaning about having lukewarm gin in his room and ordered the crew to get a load more ice! After that I thought that's the last time I bother to try and help someone.

I am. No wonder I'm such a dull boy. It's all work and no pay down here!

PS. How come you aren't in the royal box at the ping-pong at Wimbledon? I can't believe you'd be interested in anything so plebeian as the footie.

Vile Jelly

26 June 2004 11:14

O Ye Of Little Faith!

Attached are subscription doo-dahs for the West Brit and Cornishbloke. SI Times & Echo doesn't seem to do a subscription service but if you send the Reporting Team a wodge of stamped SAE's (A4 or A5 ish probably best) plus 55p per paper required I'm sure they can be persuaded to post you one weekly on their way to the pub.
PS. The sub forms may take some time to download as I have deliberately not reduced the file size so as not to reduce the reproduction quality. I have no idea what size they will print out at. Let me know if you are having technical difficulties!

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