01 September 2004 10:03

No Sense

Re the letter in the Cornishman - yes things do change and the way of life changes. That is why the tin mines are closed and life expectancy is higher, why fishing boats have engines and not sails and why the RNLI
Lifeboat is no longer a pulling/sailing boat. It is also why the occupants of the houses in St Ives use a vacuum cleaner to clean the floors and not a brush, why the lower level is now used by people and not fish or livestock and why it is highly unusual to see a donkey and cart in the town. It is called progress! Assuming that the original owners in Downalong were locals they, presumably, sold the houses to incomers and pocketed the profit. Who is at fault?  On the subject of incomers you will hear similar comments and arguments (as per St Ives) from Londoners from the East End of London, local "old boys" in Hertfordshire, those that used to live in the very pretty villages that are now gobbled up by Milton Keynes. The small Hertfordshire village that my mother was born in is now a suburb of Stevenage and so it marches on. As for get rich quick merchants well if they have the ideas, see an opportunity and grab it, why not? I recall being out in Kenya a few years back and native Kenyans complaining about the Asians who were coming in setting up a business and making a load of money. So, it's not even unique to the UK (also hear similar arguments in the Middle East) In all cases the "locals" need a can-do, will-do attitude and get off their bottoms and go do it!
Benatugana - Tereba nessa - Winwaloe 

Vile Jelly

01 September 2004 15:48

What an ironically appropriate communiqué on the anniversary of the Nazis invading Poland. Of course, as you say, they had the resources and they had the willpower to do it, so why not? Obviously WW2 was entirely Poland's fault for not being able to compete with the Nazis and quite why we spent the best part of 6 years hassling Germany over the incident is a mystery that continues to baffle.

Of course, you're so right that we shouldn't dwell in the past nor impede in any way economic self-aggrandisement. Presumably you are busy campaigning for the dissolution of such shocking wastes of space and money as the National Trust, English Heritage, the National Parks, assorted museums, libraries and galleries. Shakespeare's centuries out of date now so Stratford-upon-Avon can be bulldozed for a car park. Most of the Royal Navy's being commissioned now to pay for Dubya's war so Nelson's Column can go and then there'll be plenty of room inn Trafalgar Square for modern office blocks and shopping malls. I'm sure you and your entrepreneurial friends have thought of loads more too.

So much heritage to destroy in the name of a quick profit and do little time to destroy it all. It makes me wonder how you find time to write to us plebeians. It makes me wonder why you bother. Has Spooky St. Ives somehow got listed in the business section of the Greedy Selfish bastards website?


02 September 2004 12:27

I can't decide if you are just a complete, unmitigated tuss or if you just like to argue for the sake of it. What has Hitler invading Poland got to do with progress? Are you stark raving mad? has the Doombar addled you completely? Is there no pleasing you? One minute you are bleating on about St Ives being a theme park, the next you seem to favour turning it in to the Cornish Clovelly! How chuckle head can you be? You have, in the past, come up with some super irrelevant bleatings but this one really takes the biscuit (or fairing?) Actually, I have decided, you just like to argue for the sake of it. Mind you don't stub your toes !

NB - Reigate = Red Herring. I was born in the West Country and currently reside in the, so called, Home Counties but NOT Surrey.

Vile Jelly

02 September 2004 16:09

Sorry, I thought you purported to be more intelligent than that. Never mind, I will explain it more slowly for you.
It has nothing to do with progress in the actual sense of progress as that is supposed to be some sort of beneficial evolutionary development. It is to do with progress which is a euphemism used by people to try and justify doing whatever they want for their own benefit. Thus, the Nazis invading Poland was progress because the Poles (like the Cornish) were less wealthy and powerful than those taking over the place. Thus, rounding up (and usually doing your damnedest to exterminate) the original native inhabitants of the country/continent to make way for settlers was progress. Thus is the get rich brigade's 'redevelopment' of the nice bits of Cornwall for their personal profit. Or it is as far as you are concerned. The locals, rather like the poor old Poles, Indians, Aborigines, etc. tend to take a rather different view of the transaction. There are quite a few people down here now openly questioning what will be left of places like St. Ives if the carpet-baggers' re-development of existing properties and sites continues as at present. If St. Ives ends up looking like just about every other bog-standard holiday resort in what way is that progress?
That's what people think down here (try seeing records of planning permission meetings). Of course, you aren't down here and have stated your belief that economic might makes right so clearly do not have any interest in trying to preserve the unique character and quality of St. Ives. Which begs the question (as begged in my previous) why you bother with a St. Ives website.
NB. So if Reigate was a lie how much of the rest of this was?

As to identity, I am Peter Wilson Smith from Reigate.
My family come from Cornwall and North Devon. I
trained as a scientist and my pass times you know


02 September 2004 17:26

Paul - I don't know what your are on but whatever it is, stop taking it! - You are really oustide all reasonable bounds of common sense and are, quite clearly, just arguing for the sake of it. Good job you were not born a fish your life would have been measured in seconds. Our local planners wanted to build a new (small) estate in the paddock behind the
garden square where I live. The neighbours got together and fought like mad. We won 5 times but were defeated in the end. However, we ensured that, as far as possible, it was built with us in mind (one family
has lived here for over 100years). We didn't bleat about the Nazis, the Americans, the early settlers, the Norman invasion, the Roman occuaption we just got on with it. OK we lost in the end but we knew that we would. However, it was, as much as possible, on residents terms. We did realise however that the village shops of 100yrs ago were unlikely to come back, and that the horse and trap had made way for the
motor vehicle. We even have a railway close at hand (not steam). Some of the locals have their own business, some don't. Some succeed, some don't. Some like the change and, guess what, some don't. Some hate the big supermarkets within reasonable distance, some love them. Some hate the thought that the nearest London Borough is a mile or so down the road and some love the fact that they can be in London in less than
an hour, ditto Heathrow. A good friend a few minutes walk from me who is Cornish (family still there)says she would never give that up. You can please------ GET THE MESSAGE??!!

NB If being challenged is really too much for you I will gladly go away and leave you to your soup dragons and etc

NNB last few times I have stayed in St Ives the very expensive cottages/houses I have rented are owned by locals. I assume that you discount them in your rather jaundiced outlook? - I feel really sorry for those that are finding it very hard to make ends meet, but don't blame it all on those that have wrapped the string round a million times.

Vile Jelly

02 September 2004 23:12

Well, if that's your approach no wonder the planners ran roughshod over you. I, personally, don't find complaisant acquiescence to the powers-that-be either morally or spiritually quite to my taste. I don't have to prostitute myself, St. Ives doesn't have to prostitute itself. I don't see why the fact that other people have got more money and power should mean that they have the right to make us prostitutes. Sorry that you feel otherwise. Feel free to keep taking the fast buck if that's what you want to do but don't tell me that just because you don't care as long as the price is right, means that the rest of us are obliged to follow the same path. Just because you've chosen to crap in your own nest doesn't mean that we have to follow suit. An American oral historian called Utah Phillips summed it up rather well. The presence of resistance is the key test for the presence of freedom and the amount you resist defines how much freedom you will have.

You still, as usual, haven't addressed a single query I've raised. What is your interest in St. Ives if you don't care whether it is turned into a Costa Del Sol clone?

NB. You haven't even vaguely challenged me (apart from trying to render your e-mails into something approximating intelligible English spelling and grammar). The last time I looked every time we've had a 'frank exchange of views' each time you've ended up dropping the subject.

NNB. When was the last time you stayed in St. Ives? Quite a few Spookyists have been down and yet no one has ever seen you. We only have your word that you've been here and you lied about being from Reigate so we know how much your word's worth! And how many places would you say that you have stayed in? Have you stayed in enough to constitute a meaningful test sample? I can think of a fair number of properties and businesses that have changed hands in just the last four years, so you must have stayed in a hell of a lot of places in St. Ives in a very short time to have reached such a conclusive result.


03 September 2004 09:41

Mrs Winwaloe is a nursery teacher, I have asked her advice on how to get through to the younger mind (even when in old body) I will try and explain in simple terms: Property Developer wants to build - Planning Dept, LDC say NO/residents say NO. Property Developer revises plans - Planning Dept, LDC say NO/residents say NO - Property Developer keeps revising plans changes type of buildings etc - Planners continue to say NO/residents continue to say NO - Property Developer gets annoyed and goes to appeal, LDC takes view that a) they cannot use ratepayers money to fight Court case b) because of Labour Gov policy to build on every available piece of land they will have to give up at some point so throw in the towel. = Residents on their own. Being a pragmatic and sensible lot they realise that the battle is over (history of LDC giving in and allowing building on greenbelt and conservation area)decide to make best of it. Therefore work with the PD to make the best of a bad job - - Yes I suppose we could have chained ourselves to the JCB, waited for
the builders to go home at night and then remove the bricks but I feel it would have been a rather short-lived protest. Understand?

Interest in St Ives? - Probably where I would choose to live (as would the boys)and I have a deep personal interest in West Penwith for reasons that are quite my own.

As to my identity, I am Winwaloe, that is all you know and all you need to know.

I was in St Ives earlier this year.

If properties I stayed in were then owned by locals and are now owned by incomers/outsiders I rather think my point is made.

Spelling/grammar - rather too lazy to use the spell check at times, however those in glasshouses should not throw stones!

I do not pretend to have carried out a full and thorough analysis of who owns what in St Ives. My point stands however.

Let me try and make the following issues clear to you:

Development - Development will happen, if it didn't we would still be living in mud huts. However, I agree with you that development has to be controlled and should not destroy the character of an area. However,
the character of that area came about through development over a period of many years. Old "fisherman's" cottages were once new and, perhaps,
replaced something former residents did not want to lose. The pretty thatched house was once a modern eyesore to some.

Progress - The World continues to change and thank God it does. that not all will be positive is accepted.

Cornwall's wealth - It is fully recognised that Cornwall is a financially poor area. That is why Cornwall is receiving large amounts of European
funding. It is there for the good of the whole County and is being administered by those that (should) have the good of the whole County as a top priority. There will always be disagreement from the Parish Pump perspective on how the money should be spent. The big picture cannot always be viewed from a small, dark corner.

Incomers - Incomers bring change of some sort. However if certain longstanding Cornish people and certain incomers see an opportunity to build a good life for them and theirs then that seems quite reasonable. One hopes that they will use some of their wealth to help the community and I am sure that many do.

I visit Cornwall whenever I can and know quite a lot of Cornish people both West and East of the Tamar. With very few exceptions I have found them hospitable, friendly, welcoming and thoroughly pleasant. I cannot,
however, say the same of some of the incomers I have met down there.

You seem to consider yourself as some sort of modern An Gof but I assume it is a self-imposed mantle?

I agree with many of your views but I do not agree with your blinkered, bigoted approach and form of expression, it accomplishes very little.

Let me leave you with a thought - The mind is like a parachute, it does not work until it is open. May I suggest you pull your rip-cord!

(May I suggest we also stop insulting one another, my tears of mirth may damage my computer keyboard)

Vile Jelly

03 September 2004 15:48

And so? I fail to see your point. As far as I can see you are arguing that because you lost the fight to keep some quality in your lives no one else should be allowed to fight to keep some quality in theirs. What invested interest do you have in St. Ives that provokes your hostility to those who oppose the over-development and, thence, ruination of a beautiful place? Why does it bother you so much that people down here protest (and don't lose track of the FACT that it was someone else's protest, not mine) against what is happening? Sure, you can't win them all. Hell, generally you can't win any of them. But that fails to explain why you so vehemently object to the right to protest. What does it matter to you what people protest against down here? Re-read your previous e-mails. Your position is unequivocal. "Far better for a few to have thousands than all to have half a groat". " As for get rich quick merchants well if they have the ideas, see an opportunity and grab it, why not?". These are the words of someone who cares for himself not St. Ives.

Why would you want to live in St. Ives? It will be just like living wherever you are now if you have your way.

We now know that you are ..... untruthful. I think that's all most people need to know.

Where? Got any proof? Your answer seems a bit short on those thingies ..... oh, what are they called. Facts.

What point was that? That locals are selling up? Selling up and moving out to be precise. Because they can't afford to live here any more. Whoop-te-do! What a fine example for posterity.

Your spell-checking and grammar is as lazy as your logic. No one can avoid the odd typo but I refuse to correct other people's e-mail typos for them which is why yours look like a Countdown Conundrum.

No, it doesn't. You claim to have a science background so you have no excuse for putting forward a proposition based on assumption.

Yes, development happens. One of the more edifying manifestations of development in the last couple of centuries is that the human race has woken up to the fact that those who shout "progress" are not necessarily their benefactors. Now, some people query who benefits from this "progress".  "Progress" is just an excuse used by the users and abusers in the same way that condescending intellectuals say 'but you don't understand'. To try to link the progress of the human species as a whole to the "progress" of property developers is asinine. Do people come to St. Ives to see modern uPVC clad holiday flats? I think not. Bizarrely they seem to want to enjoy the rickety fisherman's cottages and all that other old-fangled stuff. So, why would over-development benefit St. Ives? Some might suspect that there would be no benefit to St. Ives from that. And, gawd help us, some of them even insist on the right to protest. "In his Readie and Easie Way to Establish a Free Commonwealth he [John Milton] argued that a minority had the right to force the majority to accept freedom, while the majority could not coerce the minority into sharing their subjection as fellow-slaves" - Simon Schama: A History of Britain, Vol. II).

The 'big picture' is just an excuse for megalomaniacs. No one's heart, soul, vision or 'truth' is bigger than the next person's.

Incomers: Intriguing point of view, if true. Have you got any scientific evidence to back it up or is it just wishful Home Counties thinking as usual? After all, here you are slagging me off for being an incomer [true] and trying to defend St. Ives [also true]. What is a proper (by your definition) incomer supposed to do?

At least I have no religious delusions!

I agree that that opinions, offensive [excessive expletives excluded] or otherwise, need to be exchanged. However, I can't agree with many of yours because they are voiced by someone who has no personal involvement in the issues. To try to pontificate about matters that affect others but not yourself ..... that's worse than bigotry.

Tried to pull the rip-cord. Discovered I had already used it a couple of decades ago. Parachute seems to be working fine as I am freely descending, whereas you are merely condescending.

Your keyboard could probably do with a good wash. Judging from your typing some of the keys must be covered in cobwebs from lack of use.


03 September 2004 18:10

You are unfailing in your ability to see any point other than your own. You turn all points around to fit your unmitigated, jaundiced view. You are also exceedingly rude. If you read through your pretentious emails you will find that you frequently contradict yourself (one email rose tinted, olde worlde St Ives is only for the tourist, the nest it must be kept at all costs). So, I think I will leave you where you belong, with the soup dragons, friggin potatoes (or whatever) and other drivel. That seems to be where you are most comfortable. Farewell

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